Relationship Master Class By 2 Of The Best Couples Counselors

Are you in a committed partnership and want to stop going through the motions and rekindle the connection you once had? If so, this Relationship Master Class is just what you need.

One of the most important pillars of a happy, thriving life is your relationship with your partner. Yet, so many of us struggle in this area. 

What do you need to be more satisfied in your relationship? 

How do you get your needs met? 

How do you put an end to having the same frikkin’ arguments over and over?  

How do you get a handle on your anger so your partner feels safe and secure in the relationship?

Do you remember the kind of life you dreamed about when you first got together with your “forever person?” What did you envision your relationship and life would look like when you believed that love was enough?

Maybe you thought you’d always…

• get along and not have lingering resentment
• be on the same page for important decisions
• feel aligned in your parenting
• have passion and desire for one another
• feel that building a home and careers would be fulfilling and satisfying
• live happily ever after

But then life happened, and now you’re here. And your day-to-day experiences don’t match the vision you once had, and you’re realizing that love isn’t enough to carry you through the challenges and realities your relationship is facing.

As professionals and partners in life and love, Dr. John Schinnerer and Joree Rose, two of the best couples counselors in the SF Bay Area, regularly see the following:

• Couples wait 6 years too long after problems arise to learn the tools to repair disconnection
• Time does not heal all wounds
• Trust can be broken in seconds and can take years to repair
• Relationships are eroded by a gradual accumulation of hurts, resentments and annoyances
• Couples rarely have the role model for the kind of relationship they want, preventing them from achieving the relationship they desire
• Once they decide they want to strengthen their relationship, they don’t know where to begin

This is why these two top couples counselors, John and Joree, want to invite you into this Master Class to guide you in cultivating the tools and skills for a connected relationship. This truly is a culmination of all of their professional and personal learnings – especially in their own relationship over the last 9 years – and they are thrilled to bring it all together for you now.

To listen to this class on Podomatic (where the podcast is hosted), click here.

To watch the video, see below.

To read through the transcript, please see below…

Relationship Master Class By 2 Top Couples Counselors, Joree Rose & Dr. John Schinnerer – Transcript

Dr. John Schinnerer: Hey, everybody. This is Dr. John Schinnerer with my beautiful partner, Joree Rose, and we are really excited to be kicking off our master class on relationships, and we are calling this the AWARE method. 

Joree Rose: We are so happy that you’re here for this introductory course. This is going to give not only a broad overview and oversight of what you can expect if you were to do the entire year long master series, but even in this course alone, you’re going to get a lot of tools on how to be more relational and happier in your partnership, because we know love isn’t enough and it does require ongoing skill building and tools and insight.

Joree Rose: And one of the things that we see. And different with the methodology that we are put together for you guys is it’s not just relationship skills. There’s really phenomenal therapists and researchers out there helping us understand how to be better in partnership. And we’re going to go into a little bit of our story in just a minute. But one of the things that we’ve really realized. Is that it’s an ongoing interplay of working on yourself as well as the relationship. So are you ready to dive in to the slides? And we’re going to go ahead and share our screen so we can go through some slides with you guys and jump right in. So again, welcome.

We are excited to be able to share with you practices and tools because we work with a lot of couples and we see that couples are disconnected, not really being themselves. Unfulfilled, unsatisfied, and we know it’s possible. So we’re excited to help you guys get there. 

Dr. John Schinnerer: So our story, so let us go a little bit back in history here. And I married my high school sweetheart. We were married for 16 years. And over time, I realized that there were some real problems in the relationship. And there were things like rage when my ex wife was met with criticism or perceived [00:02:00] criticism. There were some issues with dishonesty and lack of integrity.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: There was issues with some other things as well. And it was interesting because I remember She was yelling at me one time and accused me of having an anger management problem, which is ironic, but I, afterwards I thought let me take accountability for my part in this. And if that’s true, let me work on it.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: And it’s true. I was getting angry towards the end of our marriage. Now, there was some pretty legitimate reasons for that. And yet, my anger is still my issue. And so I really started to work on my anger, and I got to the point where she could be screaming at me, and I had done nothing wrong, and I could stay calm, and not get defensive.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: And just be like, Yep. Thank you for sharing that. I appreciate that. I hear you’re really angry. And so once you get to that point, it’s really evident who has the anger issue, but that [00:03:00] was, we divorced in 2013. And shortly after that I guess it was a few years after that I met Jory. And it’s interesting because there’s still remnants and vestiges of that marriage that were coming into our relationship that I had to figure out.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: And so that’s what Jory’s talking about. There’s this interplay, this dynamic interweaving between me doing my own work. And me learning to become better in relationship. 

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: And I was actually married to my high school sweetheart as well. I was together with him since I was 13 years old. And I thought I had relationships all figured out.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: And what I woke up one day in my early 30s and was like, how did I get here? I don’t remember making the conscious choices to get here. I just kept doing what was next. What was next? What was next in the hopes that then I would feel more. Connected, more satisfied, more fulfilled. And I realized I wasn’t [00:04:00] fulfilled within myself.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: I don’t know who I was. I, like many women do, I got lost in my relationship of being a wife, of being a mother. I threw myself into all of that and Really didn’t know who I was, and it really started a deep practice of my own therapy got me into mindfulness and meditation became licensed as a therapist.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: At that point, I had put it off for many years to have my kids and really understood just how much. Relationships aren’t just about getting along. And I was seeking growth and deeper connection and deeper intimacy and really effective communication and not arguing doesn’t mean things are great. 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: I think both of us were looking for a secure foundation from which we could go and explore the world and learn more things, and neither one of us had that.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: And so when we were able to recognize in our own individual journeys, this is our own [00:05:00] work that we’re working on here. And like John said, a couple years after my divorce, he was divorced a little bit longer, we met and It was an amazing meeting and partnership from the get go. And yet we’ve been together at the point of this recording just over eight years, which included last year, a short breakup.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: And that was really painful, but also reminding us. A, like I said, love isn’t enough, but also the things that we’re getting in the way, as John mentioned, were not necessarily things about us. It was from our past, from our childhood, from our marriages, from our own, insecurities, anxieties, attachment issues.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: And when we recognized Wow. It’s not just doing the relationship skills. It’s let me look deep into myself to see where am I still getting stuck? Where am I still getting triggered? Where am I not feeling safe to show up fully to [00:06:00] be fully vulnerable or trusting or feeling secure? So we’ve always done work together and we’ve always really enjoyed working with couples, but healing after our breakup really propelled us to a new level of our own relationship, one of which I thought it was great before.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: And where we’re at now in our connection and our safety and our security and our communication. Yeah. It’s, I didn’t really realize it was this possible and it’s from that point that we want to help guide you guys. And we are in a unique position of being two therapists in relationship, really being vulnerable in our own story, in our own shortcomings, in our own shit that keeps getting in the way that was really preventing that intimacy that we were seeking.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: So this is, this masterclass series. And in addition with our coaching that we offer couples. Is really combining a [00:07:00] lot of different methodologies. It’s not just the relationship skills and tools, which there’s great therapists and researchers out there validating the tools that we’re going to teach.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: But also a lot of couples only come into therapy when there’s a crisis. And they often wait six years into their challenges before seeking support. So they’re already ingrained in their anger and narrative. And they might just be checking the box of one last thing before they’re out the door. So we really want to work with the people who are committed in their relationship, but not fully content, who are continuing to get stuck in those repetitive patterns.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: They just can’t seem to get out of with the recognition. It’s not just the relationship skills. We got to do our own work and that’s what we’re here to guide you guys in. And so throughout this course, but also throughout the whole masterclass series, we’re going to be delving into different areas, which we’ll talk about in a few minutes.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: So what are the goals of this master class? The goals [00:08:00] are things like increased happiness, connection, and ultimately building a secure attachment with your partner. Now, you don’t need to come into a relationship having a secure attachment style, but you can build one in the right relationship. Now, the other, the alternative is also true, that I’ve seen people come into a relationship with a secure attachment and become more anxious or more avoidant.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: If the dynamics are let’s say not supportive. 

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: Yeah, I was going to say one thing. One of the things that we’re often going to do is share examples of our own selves and not just, transparency, but letting you guys see what it looks like in practice to talk about some of these things. And the attachment cell is one that many couples get stuck in.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: And we ourselves got stuck in what’s called an anxious avoidant dance. Which is a really painful experience, and we’ve actually been able to work our way out of it through greater self insight, as well as relational insight into what was going on in that dynamic. [00:09:00] And a quick example of what this looks like is, if we got into a disconnection or an argument, John needed some space in order to calm himself down so he didn’t say something he didn’t mean, or just to regulate.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: Have some, quiet time. That came across to me as abandonment, which made me super anxious. So as he would retreat in an effort to calm himself down and regulate, I would then chase him saying, this is, really dysregulating for me. I’m seeking connection. You’re seeking alone time.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: And it goes in a spiral because both of our needs weren’t getting met. He wanted space. I wanted connection. It didn’t work. And through greater self insight into, Oh, this is actually an opportunity for me to practice calming myself down. I can do that on my own. It was hard, and I could do that.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: And recognizing if I actually gave him that space he was seeking, [00:10:00] he was then more available to come back. 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: So we’re going to talk about this concept of enlightened self interest a lot in this course. And the idea is, if you can help your partner meet their needs, in turn, you get your needs met much more frequently.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: Yeah. And 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: it’s it creates a virtuous cycle, an upward positive spiral. 

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: And you’ve got to have the awareness to recognize what you can do in that moment. And we’re going to be teaching a lot about how to have that awareness. to 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: go too far into that anxious avoidant trend. Yeah. There’s more to that.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: There’s a lot more to it and we’ll get to it later on. But I just want to give an example of what some of these things look like. So that way people can have identity of, oh, that’s what we’re actually doing. 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: So the second goal is an increased understanding. To those ongoing repetitive arguments and disagreements that you are just stuck in and, realize that this is often over the dumbest shit, like the dishwasher or the dog or what time you’re home, or someone 

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: eating food or someone’s [00:11:00] at the table and 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: arguments over some, 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: Yeah, like eating an order of eating a bite of an order when she was in the bathroom and I was starving.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: We got no an argument over that. 

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: Yeah. 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: And like stupid stuff, right? And so then how do we shift out of them? How do we repair once there is a disconnection? Because there’s going to be disconnections, there’s going to be disagreements. That’s being human. The key skill is the repair attempt. And there’s two parts to the repair attempt.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: Someone has to make the repair attempt. Someone, the other person has to receive the repair attempt well. And so we’ll cover that a little bit more too. And we want to cover the third. 

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: Yeah. Oftentimes people in the middle of when the shit hits the fan need to know what do I do. And especially that’s really tricky because when we are feeling at our worst, our emotional brain has taken over and we’ve actually lost access to our tools.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: So it’s not only the understanding of recognizing what your accessibility is to even get to the tools and the skills that you need. So some patience and some time to [00:12:00] be able to Calm yourself down in the meantime. But then once you are calm, what do you actually do to repair? What do you actually do to have effective communication?

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: How do you non defensively listen to your partner? How do 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: you fight fair? How do you fight fair? And the third one here, sorry to interrupt, is providing tools. It’s using a gaming analogy, right? So it’s We’re going to provide tools and skills so that you can level up your relationship and also yourself.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: Yeah. So there’s so much more we can say to this, but we’re trying to keep it a little bit succinct, but all right, here is some examples. When we came up with this list, to be honest, I think there’s probably about 30 different categories, not exaggerating. Of where couples are at and what we see what the people we work with as well as what we’ve seen in ourselves 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: and where we believe they deserve to be.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: So we want to highlight some of the top ones that I think are most common. So if you want to take [00:13:00] maybe where they’re at and I’ll talk to the other side. 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: So where we see couples are at. We see a lot of couples living transactional lives. They’re just parallel lives. So they’re just going through the motions.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: There’s no depth of connection. There’s no emotion in the connection. It’s very surface level. And at some level it’s painful because it’s that feeling of being alone in a relationship. 

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: It’s a horrible feeling. And the transactional, if you’re not sure what we mean by that, it’s the conversations that are simply about the schedule, the kids, there’s nothing really personal to it.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: The time schedule, like who’s doing what, when. 

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: Where couples deserve to be is to feel connected in all areas, to feel safe and secure, to have more intimacy of conversation, of feeling like they’re seen, heard, and validated. And actually living a balanced interweaving and not a parallel life, but really connected.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: I think we’re going to [00:14:00] overuse that word, but it’s not to be understated the power of what that feels like. 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: Yeah. So the second one is arguments. So in a lot of the couples, we see the arguments are frequent. They’re intense. So there’s, name calling, there’s insults being hurled. The volume goes way up.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: There’s no rules in the argument. So there’s kitchen sinking, which means that people are, there’s one thing you get mad about and you start with that, but then all of a sudden you start throwing in everything else from the last 10 years into the argument, which there’s no way you’re going to resolve anything.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: If that’s your approach, far better to just stick to one item at a time 

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: and where couples deserve to be is to be able to argue effectively with effective repair attempts. And look, you guys are human, we’re human, we’re still going to get into arguments. It’s not about never getting annoyed or angry or upset with your partner.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: It’s about understanding too and [00:15:00] beginning to build insight into. What’s going on underneath the argument, right? And this is something we’ll talk a lot more about as well. But sometimes if John and I have been disconnected and we’ll deal with it. And then a day or two or a couple of days later, I’ll come back around and say, you know what, love, I’m actually not really feeling resolved in this.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: And at first he used to get really frustrated. This 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: used to drive me nuts. 

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: He would get really frustrated thinking like, ah, shit, I thought we dealt with this. And yet what we were doing, which he’s now understood as a very helpful skill is to understand like with some greater distance and objectivity, what was going on there.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: Cause I’m like, I don’t care if we argue, I just want to understand it. I want to learn from it. I want to grow from it so that I can diminish the frequency or intensity next time around. 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Best Couples Counselor: Yeah. I think the more that you come back to these arguments with distance, you can look at them calmly. Objectively with curiosity, and you can begin to peel back the layers and look at is this really about [00:16:00] us?

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: Or is this about a past relationship? Or is this about my childhood or some trauma that I had? And that’s how you begin to really uncover what the root cause or causes are. And that’s how you begin to change these dynamics. 

Joree Rose, Best Couples Counselor: I want to add one more piece on the arguing. A lot of the couples I work with never even get to a repair attempt.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: They just, and repair attempt is actually healing the disconnect, right? And we’ll talk about how to do those. But what I see a lot of couples actually doing is the dust settles and then they just push it under the rug and they just don’t talk about it. And they’re like, I don’t want to rock the boat. I don’t want to bring it up again.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: I don’t want to get re triggered and it never fully gets resolved. So that’s the pattern. Yeah, 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: the third one here is really, there’s a great quote by Terry real, who’s one of the top three couples counselors in the world, I believe, and he says that relationships don’t die by a large transgression, typically, like an affair, relationships die via death by 1000 paper cuts, where those paper cuts are the small hurts, [00:17:00] annoyance, resentments, anger that accumulate day in and day out, and they’re really small.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: Like ignoring someone’s bid for attention. Hey baby, did I tell you about the Joneses? And she’s on her phone and just goes right over her head, for example, that would be one paper cut. As a result of these paper cuts, we see a lot of couples that are disconnected, resigned, demoralized, and have this attitude of, why should I even bother trying?

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: I’ve been down this road before and I’ve just gotten hammered or ignored or unseen or invalidated. 

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: Yeah it’s a very painful place to be and it’s easy to get demoralized and to even bother. And yet we do know. When you put in the time, energy and attention towards gaining greater self insight, relational skills and tools, you can be more connected emotionally, intellectually, spiritually, physically.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: And the key is when that is really powerful is when you see the growth when a challenge does arise, and you’re [00:18:00] not so stuck in the old dynamic, and it’s possible. So we’re here to really just inspire you in that possibility, even if you not had it in a long time my guess is you probably had at some point early on in your relationship but was there.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: Perhaps if you weren’t just too idealized and hopeful and, looking for something that was not actually there. 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: What were you gonna say? I was gonna say one of the key ideas here that you’re going to hear us repeat is reward the behaviors you want to see more of. Yeah. And so if your partner’s working on him or herself, if they’re working on the relationship by all that’s good and holy please compliment them for the slightest bit of growth and effort that you see.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: Again, enlightened self interest. Yeah. Help me help you. 

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: We’ll get to so much more of that, but that’s going to keep coming up. 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: So the fourth one is intimacy in so many so many of the couples that we see have zero intimacy, [00:19:00] physical or emotional. And it could be low, it could be zero intimacy, but, 

Joree Rose, Best Couples Counselor: or it could be just unsatisfying intimacy if it’s there.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: It 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: could be. And, it’s. I think we ask, we get rejected. And over time, it’s again, those paper cuts, we just give up on asking and we even give up on wanting intimacy with our partner as the resentment and contempt build over time. And that’s, it’s a damaging cycle.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: And we know for especially women, the brain is the biggest sex organ. And so if we have unresolved paper cuts that keep mounting. Most people are going to struggle literally opening themselves up physically, emotionally, mentally, spiritually to their partner when they feel so rejected. So where couples deserve to be is not just a vibrant sex life and intimacy extends far beyond, just actual intercourse or sex, but frequent non sexual physical touch, having safety in [00:20:00] proximity.

Joree Rose, Best Couples Counselor: That’s something we see, couples who are disconnected just don’t even feel. Emotionally safer, the desire to be near their partners sharing their inner road, feeling a desire to let my partner know what’s going on for me and being able to trust it’s going to be received with love and compassion and respect and not utilize against me because that’s without judgment.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: And that’s a fear. I see a lot of people having of, I don’t want to share what’s going on because it’s going to be used against me. It’s going to be judged. It’s going to be criticized. Why would I do that? And then we wonder why they’re not having sex. Yeah, of course, if you’re not feeling safe and sharing yourself, why would you physically open yourself up?

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: And so we, as it says here, prioritizing emotional safety, when we can give the space to be seen, heard, and validated, to have curiosity and compassion, to prioritize presence, time, and attention, the benefits of intimacy extend far beyond just your sex life. [00:21:00] 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Best Couples Counselor: Yeah, and the fifth one here is trust issues, and I would argue that trust issues start at that emotional level, and then build from there.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: Now it can also be physical, then you get to the bigger ones like someone has an affair, so a sexual trust issue, or financial trust issues, financial betrayal. But I would say that most of them stem from a root cause of emotional trust issues. So if you’re in a relationship where these minor trust issues accumulate over time, then you get this attitude of why try, why bother?

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: I’m going to go out and seek my attention elsewhere, or I’m going to do whatever I want with my money. And that, so these, they accumulate and they lead to bigger and bigger trust issues. 

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: And I also want to add, I think when you have trust issues, you have a confirmation bias in which you’re looking through a lens of mistrust.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: You’re looking for evidence to support the anxiety of I can’t trust my partner, which is really damaging. Where you deserve to be is having high trust, being able to be fully transparent, to not have [00:22:00] secrets, to over communicate. One of the ways to build trust in this, and we’ve done this from the get go, is Give each other your passcode to your phone.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: I’ve got nothing to hide. Therefore, I’m going to share what I have with him. Even just the mere act of me sharing that is a sign of trust. And we’ve always had that with each other. I’ve never once looked at your phone because the act itself It 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: works both ways, too, in the sense of, oh, she has the passcode to my phone.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: I need to make sure I don’t put anything on there or I don’t behave in a way that I’m not proud of or wouldn’t want her to find out. Plus, it builds trust and transparency and 

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: again, you can’t be transparent if you’re in a pattern of being rejected, being criticized, being judged, being shamed and 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: secrets, right?

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: If you have hidden behaviors, it just doesn’t work 

Joree Rose, Best Couples Counselor: out. So this is again, just a highlight of where we see couples at and where they deserve to be. And you can check out more of our social media to give more information of, other patterns such as this, but we want [00:23:00] to these are some of the top levels of, it doesn’t have to be this hard.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: Relationships are meant to be loving, supportive partners, and we want to help you guys get there. Okay. We gave some examples. Again, we could have gone on and on about these, but these are some common ones. John’s already mentioned the paper cuts. Do you want to add anything else to that? 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: No, I think that you’ve got the idea of the paper cuts.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: Now here’s some examples of paper cuts. And, one of the examples we talked about, because again, these are the stupid things we fight over. One of the ones, the classics is the dishwasher. 

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: When I’m working with couples and I mentioned the dishwasher, Without even saying what it is about the dishwasher.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: It is hilarious. Everyone’s Oh my God, the dishwasher. I don’t, I have not yet seen a couple who has no emotional attachment to some experience regarding the dishwasher. So let’s go through some of them. There’s a 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: bunch of stuff wrapped up in the dishwasher. Like one of the rules for fair fighting is no criticisms.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: So one of the ways I use the dishwasher example is, wife and these are [00:24:00] stereotypical. So forgive me, the wife asks the husband to empty the dishwasher. He says yeah, no problem. The whole day passes. He hasn’t emptied the dishwasher. So come seven o’clock, eight o’clock at night. She’s upset.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: She’s annoyed. So 

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: probably once into the dinner dishes and can’t load them 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: a couple of ways, she could deal with it. One is with a criticism, damn it. You’re so lazy. You said you’re going to empty the dishwasher. You have an empty dishwasher. You need to do 

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: what you say you’re going to do.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: And so the, you’re lazy is a criticism. She’s attacking his whole being versus having the criticism out and changing the tone of voice and just saying, Hey, honey, you said you were going to empty the dishwasher, it’s not done. I really need you to get it done. Anyway, I can support you doing this. And so it’s a reminder.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: It’s addressing the behavior, but it’s not going after the whole person. 

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: Yeah. 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: And so go ahead and 

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: share some on the dishwasher. I personally. Will own that. I can be a little [00:25:00] righteous and perhaps Controlling or ain’t all the right word around how things get organized. And I have a belief system That there is a most efficient way to organize the dishwasher And I also value Having help around the house and in the kitchen and john cares a little bit less Around how it’s put in if it fits then it’s in it’s all good to go and I used to go in and undo sometimes I still do but don’t tell him I go used to go I think if he does know then he doesn’t take it as criticism he just recognizes this is just me being me and he can accept that and it’s not about a judgment.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: But when I used to go in and rearrange what he just did. How would you feel? 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: It was frustrating. It was like being criticized. It was also It 

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: was silent criticism. It didn’t 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: make sense either because I’m putting the dishes in, if you’re going to go in and redo the dishes after I put them in, my attitude was like, do them the first time.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: Like why am I doing it the first time if you’re [00:26:00] going to go in and correct what I’ve done? 

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: And it became this sensitive issue and I had to recognize what’s my higher value here? Do I want help or do I need it to be what I think is right? And ultimately I’ve really been working on giving up control on how I think I need things to be in service of the partnership, the support.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: And that also has created much more ease between him and I, because he’s not feeling judged. And instead, whenever you have the dishwasher or load the dishwasher, what will they say? 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: Thank you for loading the dishwasher. 

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: And so I’m validating the behaviors. I was to continue to see if I only kept rearranging it, his desire level to ever keep helping me with it would go way down.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: One. And this goes back to that idea of enlightened self interest, right? So for Jory, if she wants help, because she often was taking when we first were going out, you would take on way too much. 

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: I’m just now learning to take on less. 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: To the point of exhaustion and stress. And so I was like, let me help you out.[00:27:00] 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: And so she’s got to work on her own issue there around allowing me to help and giving up on her need for control and perfection. So that I am willing to help her out on the long, over the long term. 

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: And just to show the layers of this, it wasn’t just that I was controlling of needing it to be my way. I didn’t have the experience in trusting someone either, A, actually wanted to help me.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: B, saw the value that in helping me meant I was more calm, relaxed, which would benefit him in return and just my overall well being. Or C, trusting the follow through with that. So this is an example of like my own self work and what’s really coming up me with myself in this dynamic and then what’s the relational dynamic.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: I think we can end the dishwasher there, but there’s a lot of a lot tied into the whole dishwasher 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: dishwasher is pregnant with possibilities. Anyway, the second one is parenting, and one of the big issues we see and I’ve experienced in my marriage was feeling undermined in your parenting, and it [00:28:00] was epic.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: In my marriage and it’s, one of the things that it says is you’re not smart enough to do the parenting on your own. One of the things it does is it sends a terrible message to your kids because the kids then know they can split you and they will seek out to split you. And then, then you get things like asking both mom and dad for allowance, for example.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: And what do you see with. 

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: I see because a lot of parents are not actually talking about. How to be parents. They’re not really getting a solid basis and foundation of their shared goals, needs, rules. And it’s a reflection to me of how disconnected parents are. It’s running by trial and error. It’s, being reactive versus proactive.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: It’s not having the safety in trusting. I’m going to value whatever it is you say because I know your values are aligned with mine. So there’s a lot which the feeling undermined isn’t just in the role of parent but in [00:29:00] partners. So that undermining is really pervasive. And it also could be I grew up this way.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: I grew up that way. And a lot of couples don’t sit down to say, here’s what we had in our family of origin. What do we want to create in the culture of our home and our family procreation? We just don’t take the time for that. 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: The other thing I see with the gender differences is. Men and women parent differently and they both have a purpose.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: And if you think of, parenting infants and toddlers, women will, women are socialized and they learn to help soothe the baby and the toddler. They bring the physiology down. They help to bring the heart rate down. They help to calm men. On the other hand, typically Will jack up the heart rate.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: They’re doing things exciting. They’re roughhousing. They’re throwing the baby up in the air. They’re doing things like that. And both of these serve a purpose because ideally we want to teach the child. That the physiology goes up, and then we learn how to bring it down. It goes up and we bring it down because [00:30:00] that’s how the system is supposed to work.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: Now, where we get into problems is where one of the other parent thinks that they’ve got the answer and they’re doing it the right way. 

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: There’s actually been studies done that say that roughhousing that dads do, because there’s a higher frequency of increase and decrease of heart rate, actually teaches kids emotional regulation.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: And resiliency. Yeah, it’s 

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: important. Anyhow, again, there’s a lot of paper cuts within parenting that causes disconnection in the relationship. 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: We’ve got to do the next one. Okay. So when Joy and I first started going out and then she got a dog a little bit later. 

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: Yeah. Which 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: she wasn’t used to having a dog.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: She’d never had a dog. I, when we would wake up in the morning, I would ask things or when I come over at night, I would ask, Hey, has the dog been fed? Just because I want to make sure the dog’s been fed. No other thought than that. 

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: So before I say what happened, this is a perfect example of why we’re doing this whole masterclass and coaching as we are with this ongoing interplay of looking at [00:31:00] ourselves and looking at the relationship because this little example shows exactly where the self and relational issues come up.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: So when John would say to me, did you feed the dog? And by the way, I’ve heard this exact example from clients and I felt so validated. But when John would say, did you feed the dog instead of just saying, yeah. Yes, I actually took it as a criticism and I would get offended. Like, why would you assume I wouldn’t have fed my dog?

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: You think I’m a bad dog? 

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: Like it’s 12 o’clock. You think I didn’t give him breakfast? Like why would you assume it? And he was like, I didn’t assume that you did it. I just wanted to make sure you did. But my own narrative I was telling myself was he’s judging me. He doesn’t trust in my ability to take care of the dog.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: When really the relational issue was either, and what I see in clients I work with, is perhaps whose responsibility is this? We often talk about like the ticker tape. Women tend to be the holders of the ticker [00:32:00] tape of the domestic responsibility. And even something as simple as the husband coming in and saying, how can I help?

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: This is sometimes the women off of you asking what I could do to help is the assumption that you don’t know what needs to be done. And that. It’s a harsh realization. It’s annoying. And so this question of did you feed the dog highlights the relational challenges of did we even decide whose tour this was?

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: Did we communicate it? Is there clear appreciation and gratitude for what is being done? But my own narrative of I took that as a criticism and judgment. It was really an interesting dynamic and we can easily get stuck on some of our own narratives and going back to that example of the self work versus the relational work.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: Part of that dynamic of that anxious avoidant dance we got stuck in was one narrative of I’m not worthy or I’m not enough. And the other side of it being I’m too much, and we see things through that [00:33:00] lens of I’m not enough or I’m too much. Again, a confirmation bias to look for evidence to support our own insecurities.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: Yeah, thank you for going over that. 

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: Yeah. 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: And then common relational issues. We touched a little bit on sex and intimacy. Where did you want to go with that one? 

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: I think one of the challenges is, just where the small slights is going to shut down the ability to feel the desire for connection.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: And, we also understand that through the lifespan of a relationship and especially as you enter into, for women, paramenopause or menopausal age, there’s going to be natural changes for desires of sex and intimacy. But we’re looking at really in my mind here, the emotional intimacy, the safety and the connection.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: And even if you don’t have a desire for more sex per se, just the dopamine dump you can get through non sexual physical touch as a form of connecting. And that tends to be one of the quickest things to go. 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: It’s funny if you think of the dishwasher and the dog killing your 

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: Yeah, [00:34:00] pretty much.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: So one of the things that you know in this first masterclass series is really this idea of what do you need for greater relational happiness and satisfaction and we realize that there’s ongoing practices that we can build both in ourselves. And in our relationship. And so we want to turn to some practical things.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: I think we’ve given, I was going to add one more thing. We’ve given some really good foundation into what the problems look like. I think we’ve given some good insight into some of the patterns that may have led to those problems. And I think we pointed out some goals or desires or intentions of where we want to get to.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: Good summary. Now, let me say also that throughout this series of masterclasses, we’re going to be going over some practices. When I say practices, You have to practice the practices that might seem really evident, but there was a period of my life where intellectually I knew a lot of the tools. I knew a lot of [00:35:00] the things I was supposed to be doing, but I wasn’t putting them into practice.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: And until you put these tools into daily or almost daily practice, you’re not going to see the benefits. So that said, 

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: could I add something to that? I think language is really powerful. So the language that we say in our own mind about whatever it is that we’re working on is going to impact our experience of whatever it is we’re doing.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: And I think it’s an easy phrase to say, I’m working on my relationship. Not a bad thing to say. However. If I call it work, what will be the emotional connection I’m going to have to the word work? It’s going to feel forced. It might feel frustrating. It might feel like a slog, there’s, it’s never ending.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: It might feel, I don’t like work. So I invite you, even if the word practices doesn’t suit you. Think of a word that really feels resonant to, I’m so excited. I get to learn [00:36:00] new skills to be more connected with my partner. 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: I’m up leveling. 

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: I’m up leveling. I’m increasing connection. 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: I’m learning. 

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: Oh, one of the things that I think is a great word that we’ve been talking a lot about is feeling complete.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: And this idea that it’s not, we had this whole discussion actually this morning about, the Jerry Maguire movie where they talk about you complete me. That really makes us feel that I was an incomplete person before this other person. Yeah. And I 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: needed you. 

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: And that negates the whole self efficacy and, pride and I’m good on my own.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: And right. The relationship, we want to have it to be additive, but the B being complete is a sense of feeling contentment, feeling happy feeling. We’re not constantly striving for more because we’re good. We’re at. So I just invite you to not look at this as homework per se, because then we’re going to feel like I don’t want to do homework.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: I want to go relax. 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: And so we started out with some really, there’s an exercise [00:37:00] for the individual and the relational. The one for the individual is ridiculously easy, purposefully so there’s research that shows that one of the easiest ways to build self awareness or metacognition, which is thinking about thinking, is to simply three times a day, stop, pause, take a deep breath, scan your body, try and figure out what’s going on in your body.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: In other words, where am I noticing tingling, tightness, sensations? Is my chest tight? Is my stomach upset? Is my jaw loose? Is it tight? What’s going on in my neck and shoulders? Where’s the blood flowing? What’s my heart rate doing? So you stop, pause, breathe, do a body scan and ask yourself, what am I feeling right now?

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: And the beautiful thing about this is the research shows the answer doesn’t matter. So you can come up with an answer that would be great, but you don’t have to. And the results from this are fantastic, like you will [00:38:00] slowly over time become more self aware, you will increase your body awareness, you’re going to increase your emotional awareness, you’re going to increase how much you are aware of the thoughts in your head.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: It’s a huge bonus for a really simple practice. 

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: As we mentioned earlier, this whole work that we’re doing is called the aware method. So we don’t want to underestimate the impact and value of awareness. When I give the stat on awareness, self awareness, I think this is helpful. 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: So all of this rests on a foundation of self awareness, the whole thing.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: And that’s what we’ve realized, right? Like we’ve seen the relational tools from the experts. They’re fantastic. And with our own clients, we’ve seen that most people, most couples can’t access the tools because They don’t have the self awareness skills. They don’t have the emotional regulation skills.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: They can’t manage their own thoughts. 

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: We saw that in ourselves as well. 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: Yeah, true. And so there’s research by Tasha Urich that shows that 95 percent of ourselves, 95 people out of a hundred will happily self report that [00:39:00] they are highly self aware, very smug, very self satisfied. But in truth, the research shows it’s only about 12 to 15 percent of us.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: That’s a huge gap that we have to work to close, so we all have to work on increasing our self awareness about what we’re thinking, feeling, what’s going on in our body and how we are perceived by others and how we influence others. 

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: And this is really, what I love about what john and I have created is it’s an amazing amalgamation of all of our personal and professional journeys, john having studied positive psychology and wanting to.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: Teach all the skills that he’s taught and all that he’s put together for anger management, my background in mindfulness and meditation, our understanding of what the experts out there are teaching about relational skills. It’s really this multimodality approach. And what am I feeling right now?

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: It’s a mindfulness practice. It’s pausing and it’s checking in without judging [00:40:00] what you’re noticing. So it doesn’t always have to be a positive experience. We’re just wanting to pay attention. So that is an individual practice. And I also can add, we can also use that to be partner. Just, one of the things I like to ask is, where are you at right now?

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: Or 

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: that’s something that John has gotten quite good at being able to express to me where he’s at. If he wakes up in the morning and he’s, in a down mood. Because he’s done that little check in that little scan to be able to share that with your partner. Hey, heads up pun just so you know, I’m feeling off today.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: It’s not about you. So the next step if you want is to then take what you notice and share it with your partner. 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: And that phrase of it’s not about you. Is golden huge because often we’ll take we take other people’s feelings and moods personally and think oh what did I do to piss jory off so if you know it’s not about you it gives you permission to either help out and support or give space yeah 

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: [00:41:00] I because we’re gonna we’re gonna throw on so many little nuggets here and there If he is in a down mood, for example, and that’s what he’s noticed from doing a self check in, and he’s assured me it’s not about me, one of our best ways of supporting one another is to simply say, how can I support you right now?

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: And oftentimes the question in of itself It’s almost enough. 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: It’s caring. It’s inertia. 

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: So again, these are all going to build. These are all ways to deepen connection. If you want to practice a partner exercise to increase foundation of connection, I invite you to practice staring your partner in the eye.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: It is super vulnerable. It can be really hard and that’s okay. Even if you can just do it for two seconds and then feel the need to look away. That’s okay. We’re not, looking for any particular amount of time. We’re looking for just building a foundation of being able to connect. 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: Actually, I would say if you increase time over time, it’s true.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: At the very beginning, it might be difficult. You might 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: laugh, you might [00:42:00] get uncomfortable, all that’s normal. 

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: So just notice the sensations that arise. And, one of the things that we’re talking about is increasing our ability to be vulnerable. And I know there’s another stat John’s always great on remembering his stats and putting it into practice when I share why vulnerability matters.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: Yeah, so I was looking at research on friendship recently, and they were looking at how long it takes to go from an acquaintance or stranger to friend and from friend to best friend. And so to go from acquaintance to friend, it takes about 40 to 50 hours of shared time, and then to go from friend to best friend it’s another 150 to 200 hours.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: so much. And if you’re an adult and you have a family, you’re like, wow, that’s a lot of time. Like I don’t really have the time to do that. And it can feel a little bit discouraging. Here’s the loophole to that. Then they threw in what happens if we’re vulnerable with the acquaintance or the friend. And what they found is it collapses that timeline of 200 hours down to 45 [00:43:00] minutes.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: So vulnerability breeds connection. And I would say the caveat is you have to do that with the right people, be vulnerable with the right people. But a lot of times we don’t know who the right people are. So it’s also an interesting practice to try being vulnerable with people and see who responds well and who is made uncomfortable by it.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: But that’s why we’re doing it. So think if it can collapse the timeline from 200 hours to 45 minutes, what’s that going to do in your romantic relationship? 

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: Yeah. And you’ll see that throughout working with us, John and I are pretty vulnerable a lot about ourselves and our own relationship and where we’ve gotten really stuck and what we’re, what we are working on and how it looks.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: And we’re not doing that to just gratuitously tell you guys about our relationship. I know. Some, somewhat. I know it’s, can be really interesting to get the insight behind the scenes of someone’s relationship. And we’re doing that on purpose. To vulnerably share so that you have permission to vulnerably share.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: If we can do [00:44:00] it, we want to give you that permission. 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: And also to normalize what you’re going through and normalize what you’re feeling. 

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: Yeah, it was. It was really hard during our short breakup to talk to the, our clients about that, especially our joint clients. And we’re like, fuck if you guys can’t figure it out, how does that give any hope for us?

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: But we’ve also been super vulnerable in our journey of healing and connection. And we talk about it at the end, but we also have plenty of joint podcast episodes you can check out on both of our podcasts. If you want to hear more of that story. Okay. So more fun ways to connect and build that relational happiness is some of the individual.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: Practices there is to really get clear. What do I want? I asked this question to almost every single one of my clients. It’s such a simple question. And yet many people do not know the answer. We often know what we don’t want, but we aren’t always clear on what we do want. So to gain some more clarity, and that could be what you want in your own life and what you’re seeking in your relationship.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: And it’s not just, what do [00:45:00] I want? But I love this ability to deepen the insight into how do I want to feel? I know in our relationship, I value feeling safe and secure. And I could show up at my worst and still be loved and not be judged. I want to feel fun. I want to feel the shared value that we have of growth and learning.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: So it’s not just what do I want, but what’s the actual feeling or emotion to look into that. 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: And there’s a reason for that. So when we look at how do we want to feel in the future, it’s really helpful to motivate us to reach our goals. That’s the why in terms of why you’re pursuing the goal. So the final exercise is And by the way, 

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: It’s in your handout.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: It’s included in the 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: handout. Yes. Which there will be a link to after this. Yes. In the email. Yes. Something like that. You will have it. 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: But this exercise is one of my favorites. It’s called 36 questions. They’ve shown in research that you can ask each other as partners, these questions. And rapidly and deeply [00:46:00] increase intimacy and connection.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: In fact, it’s so powerful. They’ve used it to reduce racism where they’ve done this exercise with a white supremacist and a black man and found that it reduced racism and the white supremacist, because you’re getting to know what’s underneath. You’re getting to know the individual and the exercise has three sets of 12 questions.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: I think that the questions generally get deeper in my opinion, as you get further into it. . But what you want to do is I would ask Jory 12 questions. He says Nothing. No, she might say, you asked 

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: the i, I answer. Oh, sorry. If I asked her the 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: questions, then she would answer. I 

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: Nothing That would’ve been, 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: yeah, that would be, that’d be a terrible exercise.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: But I don’t comment, I don’t come up with no commentary. I don’t respond. I just say, thank you for sharing. I ask the questions, she answers, and then we switch. And then if you want, you can do this in three separate sittings if you want, if it makes you slightly uncomfortable, or you can do it in one sitting, but great exercise to build connection and intimacy.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: Yeah. What we’re really looking at here [00:47:00] in all of this is, a lot of what’s based in John Gottman’s work, who’s been scientifically studying marriage for over 40 years is part of it is we just don’t know who our partners are anymore. Like when we first start dating, you ask a lot of questions, you get to know each other and then those questions stop.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: And then you make assumptions. I know exactly who they are. I know what their values are. I know what’s important. I know what they want in their life. I know what they’re working on. I know who their friends are. I know what their struggles are. But unless we ask. We might not actually know those things. So this is 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: changed in the last 10 years.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: I thank God I’ve changed in the last 10 years. And so it’s, as we are going to continue to grow and evolve and change, it’s bringing our partner along for that journey of what’s going on in our inner world. So I love this idea of being the CEO of your relationship. And the truth is here. Again, coming back to that idea of the self and relational, one of the why of why are we doing this is because the more work I do on [00:48:00] myself, understanding what motivates me, understanding what’s underneath my patterns, understanding my insecurities or anxieties, the more work I do on myself, the more safe and secure I’m going to feel in the relationship.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: And conversely, the more work I do on the relationship, I’m actually going to feel more safe and secure in myself. When we see this enlightened self interest. We’re just up leveling on all sides.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: So happiness is all about connection and that’s what has come out of this 80 year old study of Harvard students. They followed them for 80 years and it started out with just men, they included women after a while, but George Vailant, the the lead researcher of this study wrote a book recently and his.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: what comes to the utmost conclusion. After looking at all this data over what, what constitutes a good life is that happiness is all about connection. So if you want a happy thriving life, if you don’t want a happy thriving life, none of this [00:49:00] matters, go out there and make money. Try and be famous. We know that 

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: connected from others, Those 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: are junk values that lead to disconnection, alienation, depression, anxiety, substance abuse.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: and so on and so forth. But if you want a happy, thriving life, you need to be connected with your partner. If your relationship is disconnected, it doesn’t matter what you’re doing in other areas of your life. And I’ve seen this working with men for 30 years, where I’ve worked with men that are supremely successful, have made a ton of money, they are respected, admired, their opinions are valued, they know exactly what’s expected of them at work, and they’re miserable.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: Because the very things that they sought out to provide for at the beginning, their wife, and now their kids. They are disconnected from. 

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: Yeah. I think it’s also important to recognize that. Raising kids is going to inherently cause disconnection in the relationship and [00:50:00] therefore dissatisfaction and unhappiness.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: I know they’re time suckers, huh? And so this is an interesting thing to note and important to name. Is while it’s, you might be at the most highly values driven stage of your life of having a family recognize there’s an inverse and the research shows this in happiness and satisfaction. So we’ve got to be able to recognize this is really hard right now.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: And what can we do to stay connected in the midst of having very little time and attention for one another. And one of the things that we recognize is time and attention is the currency of all relationships. It’s truly about the quality and not the quantity because if you are fully present. Even for a short period of time, it’s going to fill up that emotional bucket.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: You’re going to be seen, heard, and validated more. You can fill up that emotional bucket when the inevitable withdrawals come, you’re still going to have leftover. So bottom line, life is hard. Relationships are hard. Raising kids is hard. Having careers is hard. Living [00:51:00] at this time and age is hard and it’s still possible to be happy and connected and satisfied in your relationship.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: Do you want to. Stop here. Do you want to go through the whole method? 

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: We’re going to go through a little bit. So 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: we’re going 

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: to go through. Really just as an overview and we’re going to delve into this a lot more, but we’re calling this the aware method. Basically, how can we become more aware of what’s happening in the present moment of being able to name our experience, accept what’s arising without judgment, have the ability to reflect and get curious what’s the story I’m telling myself right now, what is the lens I’m seeing through, and how to communicate that to your partner.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: This methodology is going to weave through all of the different classes as a foundation of why awareness, self awareness, relational awareness matters. 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: And as we were talking earlier, there’s going to be a strong component of self work in here, as well as relational work. So as far as the self goes, it’s really 

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: mindfulness practice.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: It’s really what it is. 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: The self [00:52:00] acronym stands for S slow down. So in keeping with that, what am I feeling right now? Exercise, right? We’re going to focus a little bit on deep breathing, some ways to practice meditation, ways to get off the hedonic treadmill, which is this idea that we adapt to anything as humans, good or bad.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: So that’s one of the reasons we focus a lot on gratitude and appreciation. The E is for emotional awareness. So we often don’t even know what we’re feeling, 

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: let alone communicating. 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: The L is for leaning into discomfort. And the F is for fulfillment. That’s more about the positive psychology and positive emotions.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: But 

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: not only that, we can’t put all of our happiness on our partner. That’s not the responsibility. I’ve got to have my own joy. He’s got to have his own joy. When we’re more fulfilled in ourselves, we’re more available for the other. And the other this ongoing interplay of self and other is these are the relational skills, how to be able to observe what’s coming up, to not be defensive, not be reactive.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: Talk daily. Oh my gosh, you guys, it is [00:53:00] astounding at how many couples just don’t talk, let alone daily, even weekly. They just don’t actually communicate. And when you can build that as a foundation, Good things happen. Heal. This is, going back and looking at what are the old wounds between us or individually so we can heal them so they don’t keep getting in the way.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: Healing is never one and done. We thought it was, it’s ongoing. Learning the tools and skills of effective communication and being able to repair. And again, repairing is not just pushing it under the rug, but actually feeling resolved and complete after an argument. Throughout the whole year, we have all different topics, socialization, awareness, mindfulness in your relationship, gratitude, compassion, understanding how our past effects are present.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: That was really one of the things that got in our way. And we see a lot of couples not knowing the extent. To which this, if you want to finish up one 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: of my areas is understanding anger. I’ve taught anger management for 10 [00:54:00] years, have a class that over 20, 000 people have gone through. And it’s one of my.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: My loves in the sense of, I think nothing undermines the sense of safety and security in relationship more than anger. And so we gotta learn to get a handle on our own anger. 

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: I just want to put a little thing here because this is really important. Anger was always a really scary emotion to me. I wasn’t raised in a way in which it was allowed, accepted.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: Most people aren’t, so I wasn’t really unique in that. One of the things that John has really given a gift to me for it is Allowed me and encouraged me to get in touch with my anger now at times it’s against him. So that’s a risky thing for him to say, yeah, I encourage you this, but when he has given me the space to express an anger is a natural emotion, right?

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: It’s not a negative emotion. What we do with it has negative implications, but the experience of feeling it. And I really wanted to take a second to delve into this because him allowing me to be angry even at him. Ironically creates more trust and [00:55:00] safety. You would think anger would push someone away.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: Every emotion exists for a reason, except for shame. That’s a whole other story. And we’ll get into this too in the series, but anger serves a positive function. It’s just, we’ve got to separate. The emotion that we feel anger from the action that we take when we are angry. 

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: Yeah. Okay. So finishing up on the 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: last one is communication.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: So communication is huge, right? So how to learn to fight fairly how to learn to communicate our needs, our wants, our vulnerabilities. 

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: And as we’ve already mentioned some of these, more greater intimacy and better sex life. Core values and core beliefs going through towards the end of the year, all of these impact our worldview, how we show up, what we think is important.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: There’s research on these primal world beliefs that show that they underlie everything that you feel, think, and do. And this is early research. And if true, they’re incredibly powerful. And so we’re going to go into your primal world beliefs about the world at large beliefs about people as a whole and beliefs about self.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: So [00:56:00] ultimately wrapping up and putting it all together. So if you want to do the full year’s worth of masterclass, this is what each month is going to look like. You can sign up for the whole year. Even if you sign up. Midway through the year, you can retroactively get recordings of the previous months, or you can sign up individually for whichever month really speaks to where you’re at or your area of interest or struggle in your relationship.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: They do build upon each other. In each one, we are going to be interweaving that awareness of self and other throughout all these topics. So that’s going to be an ongoing practice in fully understanding that ongoing interplay. And to wrap up, as I mentioned earlier, we’ve got a lot of joint podcast episodes.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: And in fact, our joint episodes get the greatest feedback, the greatest engagement. We hear a lot of people who are actually like repeating certain episodes. We’re in a valuable position of, living it while Teaching it and that’s where we [00:57:00] love being vulnerable with our clients that really breaks down some of those barriers that often therapists have with clients because we’re human and we’re learning and growing.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: And just because you have the tools doesn’t always mean they’re able to be accessible so this is really valuable information to be able to see what it looks like in practice and you can check out our podcast, and these are just some of our top books. So in addition to all of the things that we shared, we aren’t just doing this masterclass series.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: We do couples coaching and we’re really excited to work with couples who know that they want to be in relationship with their partner and they just don’t quite have the skills to make it fulfilling and satisfying. This is not, if you’re on the verge of divorce or in the midst of addiction or massive mental health challenges.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: This isn’t really the work for couples who are in the middle of [00:58:00] crisis because we got to get out of crisis before we can gain and learn new skills and tools. But if Hey, I love my partner. I’m not sure I always like them or I like them, but I’m not sure what love looks like at this level. And I want to feel closer, safer, more connected.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: more aligned, especially for couples who are getting towards the end of their child rearing years. And they’re like, Oh shit. Now what? Like I’ve been with you for 20 plus years. I love you, but I don’t know you anymore. I don’t know what we do next. What do we, how do we fill our time? So if this is something that you’re wanting to deepen your intimacy, your satisfaction, your happiness, new levels of love that you didn’t think was possible.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: We’re here to guide you. So masterclass series for the whole year, couples coaching. And we also, if you are watching this in a timely manner, I’ve depending on what part of the year you’ve ended up downloading this September 2024, the end of September, we’re doing a week long retreat. In Costa Rica, and actually not just [00:59:00] for couples, but anyone who’s wanting to learn the skills and tools to be better in relationship again, with that balance of self work and relational work.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: And the goal is to be doing more live events like that. So you can always check in with our websites to find the latest. 

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: Yes. Best place to find more info. If you’re wanting to learn more is the ultimate relationship. com. Of course, you’ve got our individual websites. I’m at joryrose. com. 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: Guide to self.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: com the evolved caveman. com. 

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: We’ve got lots of access. So follow us on social media. If you don’t already, we’ll be sharing more and more of these tools and more ways to find them accessible. And again, you’ve got a handout from today’s class, all the, there’s an overview of everything listed in there, along with some additional reflection questions, what came up for you during this first class.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: Those 36 exercises, the different practice questions, the practices that we mentioned. So thanks. 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: And thank you so much for joining us. Thank you so much for sharing your time and attention with us because we know it’s the most valuable [01:00:00] commodity that you have. 

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: And we hope to see you in our upcoming live masterclasses.

Joree Rose, Couples Counselor: And again, cheers to having an ultimate relationship that you can gain and build and cultivate the foundation and ongoing practices for.