Why Men Just Aren’t That Happy: The Man Box

WHY MEN AREN’T AS HAPPY AS THEY COULD BE: THE RULES OF GROWING UP MALE

“Man up!”
“Stop being a pussy!”
“Nut up!”
“Suck it up!”

Ah yes, the timeless wisdom of masculinity, handed down from fathers, coaches, brothers, and that one emotionally constipated gym teacher. From the time we’re kids, men are taught one thing loud and clear—don’t be weak. That means no crying, no talking about feelings, no showing vulnerability. Just tough it out, grind through it, and for the love of God, don’t ever ask for help.

This unspoken code, sometimes called the Man Box culture, is a set of rules that dictate how we’re “supposed” to behave as men. Some of them are obvious, some are so deeply ingrained we don’t even realize they’re running the show. And while this system has its upsides, it also screws up our relationships, our happiness, and our ability to actually enjoy life.

The worst part? Most of this isn’t even our fault. We were just handed the rulebook and told to follow it. But here’s the kicker—it is our responsibility to unlearn the parts that don’t serve us. If we actually want to be happy, if we want strong relationships, if we want something more than just surviving, we have to start playing by a different set of rules.

In this episode, Dr. John Schinnerer, top men’s therapist, takes a deep dive into the hidden lessons of masculinity—how they shape us, how they hold us back, and what we can do to rewrite the script. If you’ve ever felt like something is missing, if you struggle to connect in your relationships, or if you just want to stop feeling so damn numb all the time, this is the conversation you need to hear.

To listen to this episode on Podomatic (where all our brilliance resides!), click here.

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Man Box: How Men Are Socialized Hurts Us, Or Why Men Aren’t Happy – Transcript

Dr. John Schinnerer: Hey everybody, this is Dr. John back again with the latest episode of the Evolved Caveman. And you might be wondering, why the hell did I call this podcast the Evolved Caveman? Wow, that’s a really good question. 

Understanding Our Caveman Nature

Dr. John: Because I think that most of us are truly cavemen. We are at some level animals and there are many parts of us that just have not evolved with the times.

The Emotional Brain vs. Rational Brain

Dr. John: Primarily, blah blah, primarily the emotional side of our minds I think the it’s not even, I think the rational side of our mind, the cognitive part is the newest part of our brain. It hasn’t been through that many revisions. The emotional side you can think of as, brain, geez, I don’t know.

It’s been through thousands of revisions, thanks to evolution. And it’s faster, it’s stronger. It can hijack your rational processing. [00:01:00] And most of the men that I talk to simply have no idea what’s going on in this realm. And it’s not our fault. And that’s really important that you hear this. It is not your fault.

It is however, our responsibility. And I’ll explain why it’s not your fault in just a second. 

The Man Box and Its Impact

As I get into the man box. So let me head in that direction because the man box just fascinates the shit out of me. 

Positive Psychology and Happiness

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: As many of you have heard, I started off my private practice with positive psychology back about 16 years ago, which is the scientific study of happiness and wellbeing.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: And to me, this was like mana from heaven. I was like, Oh my God, this is amazing because the way I had been trained and psychology for the past hundred years has focused on the negative. of how we are broken and how that can be fixed and psychology used to be content with taking clients from a negative five, mental illness, to a zero, which would be surviving.

So negative five to zero. If I got my client to a zero, I dust off my hands and say, I did it. I’m a success. I helped this person, which is true. I did help them. And yet it’s not the whole picture, because the whole picture is helping people get to plus five or somewhere, at least in that direction where you are aware of positive emotions, where you know how to communicate, where you have a shot at a happier life, because to me, that’s really what it comes down to the one thing that the 8 billion people on this planet can agree to is that we all want to be f*cking happy. And yet, no one ever teaches us how. No one ever gives us the skills to say, this is what you need to turn down the volume on that negative shit. And this is what you need to turn up the volume on positive emotions and positive [00:03:00] thoughts and positive interpretations of the world around you.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: Now, I know that there’s a lot of men out there, the vast majority of us, are driven by success. And wealth because due to our competitive nature, how we’re socialized, this is a big fucking deal. So here’s my response to those of you that say, I just want to make more money. Fair enough. Although I would challenge the fact that’s truly going to make you happy.

The Myth of Success Leading to Happiness

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: What they found in one of the seminal meta analyses in positive psychology. And a meta analysis is an analysis of other analyses. It’s a study of other studies. So it’s taking data from a number of research papers and combining them and looking at overall, what does the data suggest? When we look at dozens of studies, what can we determine?

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: And in the social sciences, it’s really hard to prove causality. A leads to B. Normally what we get is A is correlated with B. In other words, the two A and B are related. They’re linked somehow, but we can’t say how. So one, A could be causing B could be causing A or maybe they’re bi directional. Now, all that’s a long winded explanation to say that this one meta analysis showed that there’s a causality between happiness and success. Huh, interesting. And, the direction of that causality was not what most people expected. Because the bullshit story that we’re fed at a very young age on through high school and college is, get good grades, some people buy into this, some people don’t, but get good [00:05:00] grades, get to the best college you can, get the best job you can, i.

Dr. John Schinnerer, top Men’s Therapist: e. what makes you the most money, typically. You work hard, you find a partner, you get married, you get promoted, you have a couple kids, you work harder, you spend more and more time away from your family, you make more money, you climb the corporate ladder, eventually you retire at about 65 and then, drum roll please, you’ll be happy.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: And I cannot tell you. I’m gonna tell you how many men I’ve spoken to over the past 20 years, that say, John, I did it all right. Like I, I married a good woman. I have great kids. I’ve been busting my ass at the job for 20 years. I’ve made a lot of money and not only am I not happy, at some level I’m just miserable.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: And that’s a really common story. And [00:06:00] that’s because they bought into this story that just isn’t true. At least in my estimation, because again, no one ever taught them how to be happy.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: So back to the meta analysis, this meta analysis proved that happiness does not follow success. Success actually follows happiness. So take a moment to wrap your head around that. Your probability of success is better the happier you are now. Maybe that goes, maybe to a point, I imagine, if you’re manically happy and, assuming all sorts of risk and spending all your money, that may not be quite the same thing, but mental illness excluded.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: Success follows happiness. And the [00:07:00] reason is that, think about who do you want to hang out with when you have free time? Who would you choose to hang out with? Most of us would choose to hang out with happier, more optimistic, more supportive, more upbeat people. And that’s a pattern. And what happens is those people that are happy and optimistic and upbeat and supportive, they tend to have more friendships, more relationships.

Dr. John Schinnerer, top Men’s Therapist: And as a result, more data gets passed to them, more communication. Let’s say you’re looking for a job as I don’t know, a project manager. If you have more relationships, then more people are going to pass you tips on where there’s an opening for a project manager at a good company. Now, if you want that, if you’re looking for that at the time, then you’ve got more options in terms of where you apply.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: Increases your probability of getting a job. If you don’t want that information, if you’re happy with your job, then you can pass it on to your other friends and then you become a connector and [00:08:00] also a helper of other people. And it becomes this positive, self fulfilling, upward emotional spiral. And your chances of success grow.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: Weird, huh? Alright. 

The Importance of Emotional Literacy

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Men’s Therapist: To me, All this talk about the man box that I do is really a way to teach men to be successful and happy. Merely focusing on this con, the concept of success is not enough. It is not enough to be wealthy. It is not enough to be famous. It is not enough to be powerful. If you truly want happiness in your life at some point.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: Because there’s tools that need to be learned and some that need to be unlearned in order to improve your shot there. And the problem is, and this really pisses me off, the problem is that happiness [00:09:00] is by definition an emotional phenomenon. I think of it a lot of times as an amalgamation or The accumulation of positive emotional experiences.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Men’s Therapist: Now there’s more to it than that. There’s meaning and purpose and relationships and some other parts. But if you just think about it on an emotional level, happiness is where you feel three, four or five times as frequent positive emotions as negative emotions. That just seems to make sense. If you’re stewing and spending most of the time in, some somewhat depressive states or.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: pessimistic states or irritable states or anxious or stressful or guilty or shameful states, you’re not very happy. Whereas if I’m spending the vast majority of my time in gratitude or awe or relaxation or joy or love or pride or courage or self compassion or peacefulness or laughter or smiling, [00:10:00] inspiration, elevation, mudita, naches, Schadenfreude, although that one’s a little bit that’s up in the air because it’s the joy you feel at your enemy’s misery.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: So it’s a little bit mixed there, but anyway, you get the idea. 

Socialization and Emotional Suppression

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: So the way that we are socialized as men from a very young age necessarily cuts us off from two thirds of the emotional spectrum and fundamentally fucks up our shot at happiness. There’s no other way around it. If we are emotional idiots, which I was about 20 years ago, if we are emotionally illiterate, if we don’t even know a positive emotion when we’re in the midst of it, how on God’s green earth are we ever going to be happy?

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: And that’s the problem that we face. So let me go into the man box a little bit just to give you the background here. 

The Man Box Rules

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: So the man box are the rules that we learn about what it means to be a man. When we’re young and this shit [00:11:00] starts in preschool. I mean it’s fascinating to me that if you look at research on male babies versus female babies, infants.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: Not sure why I added infants there, you guys know what babies are. But sometimes in research they refer to them as neonates, and it’s like why are you using that word? Anyway. From a very young age as infants. Males actually exhibit more emotion than females. We are more vocal when our needs aren’t met.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Men’s Therapist: And over time, and it’s about the age where boys enter into preschool, so about 4 or 5, what we find is that up to the age of 5, moms are really in tune with the emotions and the nonverbal utterances of young children, infants. Whether male or female, whether sons or daughters, they’re equally in touch with both.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: Once it gets to preschool age, [00:12:00] the boys, the young boys begin to learn, Oh shit, like I don’t want to show that part of me that’s embarrassing, or that can lead to being teased. And then they start to shut down parts of their emotional self. And from that point on, the mom begins to guess she’s got a worse understanding, insight into what their sons are feeling and why.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Counselor: And there’s a gradual disconnect that grows there, that it’s not the same for the little girls. Just interesting that at one point in our lives we actually did feel a lot. And then as we get socialized in this man box culture, we slowly, gradually start to shut down parts of ourselves. Now, if you ask thousands of middle school boys and high school young men, what does it mean to you to be a man?

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: The rules are often very similar. [00:13:00] Things like men dominate women, men are aggressive, men don’t back down. Men avoid all things feminine. Men provide for the family. Men are self reliant. Men do well at sports. We’re competitive. We’re tough. We’re tough emotionally, physically, mentally, and the big one, men do not feel.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: Now, some of these rules are good. Some of them, I would say don’t serve us at all. And some are somewhere in the middle. So I need you to as you’re listening to this, throw out your black and white, all or nothing thinking. Throw out the binary thinking of zero, one, yes, no wrong.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Counselor: Because none of that’s going to apply here. This is not about attacking men. This is not about attacking masculinity. This is not about toxic masculinity, which is a phrase that I don’t like. And I think really shuts down a lot of [00:14:00] men because they instantly are put on the defensive. That is not the goal here.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: The reason I talk about man box culture it’s actually a result of a conversation I had with Mark Green some while back. And Mark wisely realized that to talk about something like toxic masculinity or talk about this phenomenon on an individual level just shuts us down. We just get to a point where we’re like, no, that’s not me, like that, no, that’s I don’t want to hear it, you’re attacking me.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Therapist for Men: We get defensive, we get angry, we get into an argument. What I’m talking about here is the man box culture. So I’m trying to discuss this at a cultural level. So there’s no right or wrong for any individual man. What there is are patterns that I really urge listeners and men in general to look at and ask themselves what parts of their masculinity are serving them and what parts maybe you want to turn down a little [00:15:00] bit, turn down the volume and what parts just aren’t serving you at all.

Cultural Expectations and Masculinity

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: Because I, I think one of the problems that we’ve gotten into, especially in the U. S., is that we’ve bought into this idea that there’s one ideal form of masculinity, and I think it looks a lot like, some of our action heroes on the big screen. Yeah it’s funny, I was watching a movie last night with Antonio Banderas and Salma Hayek, and it’s not La Mariachi, it’s the one that came before that. (Note: It’s Desperado)

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: I forget the name, but it’s it’s a badass movie. It’s it’s one of my favorite movies and it’s, him as a mariachi, but he’s a mariachi with a guitar case full of guns and he’s, it’s a revenge story. So he’s getting revenge on the gangster, the mobster, the, Mexican mafia guy that killed his love and it is so full of man box stuff.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Therapist for Men: It’s hilarious. Like he gets shot a couple times. Yeah. Goes back to Selma Hayek. She patches him up with, like a fish hook [00:16:00] and thread and, a torn rag. And then he goes out again and does it again. The next day. And, it’s he doesn’t really show much emotion at all other than, simmering intensity and brooding irritability and, clenched jaw.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: And, that’s the thing we see with Bruce Willis and Arnold Schwarzenegger and Vin Diesel and a lot of these guys, right? If you just look at the emotional range that these guys show in these action hero movies, it’s a riot. And don’t get me wrong, I love this stuff.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: I grew up on it. But I also have to look at it now as, what were the messages that I got from this? Because, as I said, the messages follow certain themes. And the themes Lay out into about six or seven one is toughness. As I mentioned before, physically, mentally, emotionally tough, which means we show no vulnerability and we solve emotional problems on our own.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Counselor for Men: The second one is anti feminine. So we should avoid anything that smacks of feminine activities or behaviors [00:17:00] or occupations. For example, do you have any judgments about males who act as nurses? Who their job is being a nurse. What about a male who is a kindergarten school teacher? Thoughts? Judgments? The third one is success and status.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: We want to be successful in sports at a younger age, and then later we want to be successful in career, often as measured by how much money we make. It’s a, dick measuring contest, to see what kind of house I can live in and what kind of car I can drive. And I think part of, I’ve entered into this is competitiveness and I can, I’ve talked about this before, but I think most of us, many of the men that I talked to that are successful are a 10 on a 10 point scale of competitiveness and they don’t realize that same level of competitiveness bleeds into their personal relationships and just makes arguments with their loved ones much worse.[00:18:00] 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: Because they’re looking at the argument as a debate where there’s a winner and a loser, which is never going to happen. And, they aren’t aware of the other type of conversation, which is more about curiosity, listening, compassion, trying to find out where the other person’s coming from, realizing that you both might have differing views on the situation, and that neither one is wrong.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: It makes me think of that cartoon where you’ve got two guys, Facing each other on a sidewalk. And on the sidewalk is written the number nine. It’s a number nine from one guy’s perspective, and it’s a number six from the other guy’s perspective. And one guy’s saying it’s a nine, and the other guy’s saying it’s a six.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Counselor for Men: And they want to come to blows over the correctness of their interpretation. Not realizing that there’s more than one right interpretation. So the fourth one is self reliance. So we are supposed to deal with shit on our own. We’re not supposed to ask for help, which, again, I, the self-reliance one’s a [00:19:00] great illustrator because I think of a lot of these on a one to 10 scale.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: So in this case, one is I’m too reliant on other people. I can’t do anything for myself. 10 is, I’m utterly and completely self-reliant and I don’t ask for help or anything from anyone. And I think either one of those extremes is a problem. And the problem for adult men doesn’t really come up until they find they are facing a problem that they just can’t deal with on their own.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: Like depression comes to mind or anxiety and panic attacks or financial trouble or relationship issues. One of the stories I tell is a good friend of mine growing up, his dad was so self reliant. IE so masculine that he would pull out his damaged teeth in the garage with a pair of pliers on his own.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: Now that’s self reliant. At some level, that’s badass. At another level, that’s harming your health. [00:20:00] And the funny thing was my dad was the dentist and I was like, shit, just go see my dad. He knew my dad. And I think part of that was fear, but I think part of a lot of what we do is fear based.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: So the fifth one is homophobia. So we are not supposed to act in any way like we are gay.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: Yeah, I don’t even know what more to say about that. The sixth one is aggression. We’re supposed to be aggressive and dominant. And the seventh one is sexual attitudes, such as always be ready for sex. You might think, so what? It’s always been this way. What’s the problem? Here’s the problem.

Changing Relationship Dynamics

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: Here’s some of the problems in the 1970s, women, two things happened that really changed the definition of marriage for women. The first one is they got access to the pill, which allowed for more reproductive freedom, which to me is a great thing. [00:21:00] The second one is they started getting more and more into the workforce and making their own money.

So now they have reproductive freedom. They also have more financial freedom. So the need for women to be in a marriage that is a financial arrangement, one that supports them financially fell off a cliff. So they don’t need us men anymore, many women, don’t need us much, don’t need us more for that financial support.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: Because they’ve got their own money. So their expectations Of what it means to be in a relationship or be in a marriage changed over the past 50 years and nobody told us and now women want most women want a lifelong romantic partner, which includes someone who is emotionally literate, supportive, communicative, empathetic, a good listener.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: And I [00:22:00] suppose romantic is in there also. And as I said, no one told us, and we weren’t socialized in that direction. In fact, I would argue that we were socialized in the exact opposite direction. If we dipped our toe in those waters of relationship or communication or emotional literacy, when we’re in high school, we just get mocked and humiliated and maybe beat up.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: So we have a problem. and the problem is that women are inherently unsatisfied with their relationships. And I like the saying, Terry Reel has a saying that, women are unsatisfied in relationship because they’re men just aren’t doing what they need to be doing. They’re not these things.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: They’re inherently unsatisfied with the quality of their relationship. And men are unsatisfied because their women are unsatisfied. We men have a [00:23:00] lower threshold for what it means to be in a caring, loving, supportive relationship. And the funny thing is, like back in my dad’s generation, it was sufficient to be a good provider.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: And then if you weren’t an addict, and if you weren’t abusive, you were a good husband. That’s all it took, really. Now, things are different. And If you don’t believe they’re different, then look at the stats, because in the U. S., women are initiating divorce 75 percent of the time. And the biggest complaint I hear from women is, I can’t connect with my husband.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: And what is connection but emotion? But communication? But vulnerability? It’s all the places that we are loathe to go. that we are fucking terrified of. And, it’s funny. 

The Hero’s Journey in Psychology

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: One of the reasons I got into psychology originally is I [00:24:00] felt it was the hero’s journey. In the sense of, yeah, Joseph Campbell, but in the sense of all the other places had already been explored by humans.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: Space, pretty much all the land on Earth, pretty much a good chunk of the ocean. So the only place it seemed to me that had been less explored was the human psyche. The human mind, the human heart, thoughts, emotions. And it’s been a hell of a ride. I’ve really enjoyed it. 

Impact of the Man Box Culture

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: So anyway, so how does the man box culture damage us as men?

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: Why should we care? Why does it even matter? There’s a few things that happen. 

Impact of Traditional Masculine Ideology on Relationships

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: Number one, if We, to the extent we buy into man box culture, to the extent we buy into and adhere and believe in these traditional masculine ideology beliefs, our relationships suffer. And there’s studies that show that the more you [00:25:00] buy into these beliefs, the worse your quality, the worst the quality of your relationship is.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: Your primary relationship, your marriage, your, yeah, whoever you’re dating. And now, given these are generalizations, but they’re clear patterns. Other ways that we get damaged by this man box shit is, we have more anger outbursts. And I’ll swing back to this one in a minute as to why. Number two, the connection with our spouse is reduced.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: And, for those of you who are paying attention, this means less sex and less quality. Number three, your spouse is more and more irritated with you because you’re just not getting it. Number four, there’s an inability to ask for what you need. So we’re, because we’re taught to be self reliant, we don’t even know what our needs are, let alone how to ask for them.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: Honey, I need some [00:26:00] space or I need some time with you or I need a hug I need to talk about this, or I need you to be more respectful when you talk to me, or I need you to use a calm tone of voice when you talk. There’s a bunch of different needs that we can put out there, but men, we don’t know what our needs are, we don’t know how to ask.

Emotional Repression and Its Consequences

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: Number five, I believe, as I said before, that you are cut off from any real happiness, because most of us are cut off from our positive emotions. So we’re just grinding it out in this low level misery. Number six, The financial success that you do get, if you do, is hollow because you’ve pursued financial success thinking it’s going to finally make you happy.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: When I just have enough, a cool enough car, a big enough house, a fancy enough title or enough money in the bank, then I’ll be happy. Now, it’s true that, you do need a certain amount of money to meet basic needs in order to be satisfied with life. And that seems to run in the area of 80 to [00:27:00] 100, 000.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: Now, I think it’s going to vary by where you live. But, we don’t need nearly as much as we think we do to attain happiness. Number seven, because we just don’t know how to communicate and be real and be vulnerable, we don’t have that many deep male friendships. I can’t tell you how many men I talk to that are lonely, that are looking for deeper connection.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: And just say, I can’t find any guys to just connect with at that level. It’s typically about like sports or work. Or I don’t know, maybe complaining about women. But number eight, you’ve got more irritability. Many of us are more irritable stemming from an underlying depression. We know that depression comes out as irritability in men.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: Many of us are depressed out there and or anxious. And we’re not even aware that we’re depressed. We just think this is the way it’s supposed to be. [00:28:00] And it just comes out as impatience and irritability at the ones we love the most. Which is really unfair. Number nine, there’s a loss of authentic confidence.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: Because you’re not being true to yourself. You’re not revealing all of yourself to others. Which you can do at times. And I talk to a lot of men that their confidence is shaky. And then finally, there’s an inability to ask for help when things get tough. 

The Man Box and Emotional Expression

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: To go back to this idea of men are not supposed to feel, men are supposed to be stoic, men are supposed to, hide how they feel the that’s the biggest problem here to me and I’ll tell you what I mean by that.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: It’s that When we’re growing up think middle school Maybe high school if you show too much sadness If you show too much fear Someone will say something like dude [00:29:00] Don’t be a little bitch Don’t be a little girl Or don’t be a pussy Those are some of the classic insults that we get. Now, understand that on that side of the coin, these are all the epitome of femininity.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: All those veiled messages are, don’t be a girl. And when we get that, and I don’t think we really have to get those insults very often. I think, maybe three, four, five, ten times as we’re growing up is enough for us to go, fuck that, I’m not showing that again. That’s embarrassing. That hurt. And so we jump back into the man box.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: On the other side of the coin, if you show too much joy, love, romanticism, excitement, God forbid, flamboyance, someone will say something like, dude, don’t be a fag or don’t be so gay. I apologize to those listeners who are offended by these slurs, but that’s what we [00:30:00] get. So that’s the reality. And. Again, we get that a few times and we jump back in the man box.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: We’re like, hell, I’m not showing that again. That’s embarrassing. I don’t like that. I don’t like how that makes me feel. And so what are we left with? What are we left with that we can publicly display as far as emotions without fear of getting mocked and humiliated? And I would argue that there’s three things.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: One, lust. Look at that ass in that skirt. Or, she’s so hot, I’d do her. Number two, stress. Because if I tell you how stressed I am, it implies I’m busy and important. And the big one, number three, anger. Some degree of intensity of anger. Irritability, frustration, annoyance, rage, anger, pissed off. And the problem is the [00:31:00] vast majority of our emotions, negative, uncomfortable emotions, get channeled into that anger lens.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: Now there’s a saying in therapy that anger is a secondary emotion. I don’t believe that it’s always a secondary emotion, but I do believe it is often a secondary emotion. What do I mean by that? That. Anger follows closely on the heels of a primary emotion, one that comes first. And the speed at which this happens is really quick.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: So if you blink, you might miss it. But we’re talking about a third of a second, just to give you a time frame. So I’ve had men tell me that embarrassment can flip to anger. I’ve heard that anxiety can flip to anger. I’ve heard that depression slash sadness can flip to anger. And again, when I say anger, I’m talking about all the degrees of intensity.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: I’ve heard that guilt and or shame can flip to anger. So [00:32:00] most of the uncomfortable emotions get realized or expressed with some degree of anger as the primary cover. And that is a huge problem for us men. And then on the flip side, we don’t We’re not even curious about figuring out which, what are the positive emotions are there and how do we recognize them?

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: So a lot of times when I first meet with men, they’re really heavy on the negative emotional side and really light on the positive emotional side. Have you ever mistaken relaxation for tiredness? Have you ever Pushed away pride, positive pride with the interpretation of, oh, they’re just blowing smoke up my ass.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: They don’t really mean that. [00:33:00] Why? Because I really think that for us to be truly successful and happy, and I don’t think there is success without happiness, then we really need, one of the interventions is to start focusing more on positive emotions, identifying positive emotions the next thing you’re gonna want to do is to do a little bit of and that’s a whole talk unto itself. So I’m not going to go into that now, because we’re already at 35 minutes. Holy, I can’t believe I’ve been talking this long. So let me give you. 

The Caveman vs. The Evolved Caveman

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: Some of the typical caveman versus evolved caveman characteristics or traits that I’ve come up with. So a typical caveman would be, someone who has bought into the traditional masculine ideology who, you know, lives and dies by the man box rules.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: And that is more, just more traditionally masculine. So a typical caveman lives in his head. Generally has a fixed mindset. Sorry, let me back up lives in his head. [00:34:00] Because one of the ways that we’re socialized is to be smart, to be problem solvers, and to be analytical, i. e. To be stoic, not emotional.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: And if you want to figure out what you’re feeling, you got to get your attention out of your head and onto your body because emotions are embodied, which means that the physiological tells of emotions exist in your body. Second fixed mindset. Most men have a fixed mindset, at least about relationships and their self in relationship.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: If not like parenting and some other things as well, but where they don’t have a fixed mindset, interestingly, many is at work because we are the provider. We put more of our time and effort and willingness to grow and learn into work. We just failed to bring that home to our wife. Let’s see.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: Typical cavemen. Primary emotions are irritability, lust, and stress, or nothing, as I mentioned before. They are disconnected. They are an island. Like the Simon Garfunkel song, I am a rock. [00:35:00] I am an island. Anyway their highest values typically are money, power, and or sex. They try and routinely fail to suppress anger and hurt.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: So the typical dynamic is you get these drops of resentment, annoyance, irritation, hurt into your bucket of negative emotions. You hold on to it, hold on to it, hold on to it as long as you can. And then eventually you get one drop too many and you go volcanic and you lose your shit. Usually over the wrong person, wrong time, wrong degree, in the wrong manner.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: They externalize blame onto everyone else as a result of their anger issues. Anger’s a bitch in that And also quite interesting in that if you and I are angry with each other, if we’re in a disagreement or a shouting match, if I’m really angry, what I’m doing is externalizing all blame onto you. And if you would just stop being such a prick, I would be fine.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: I wouldn’t be [00:36:00] mad. And what happens is when we’re angry, we routinely ignore the possibility of what’s my part in this. I’m going to tell you a little story about how I got into this drama, in this play what did I do to screw things up, or to disconnect us? Because when you’re angry, you revert back to that black or white, all or nothing thinking, it’s very, It’s not subtle or nuanced at all.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: I’m right, you’re wrong. And I’m going to yell at you, until you admit how right I am, and how wrong you are, and apologize to me. And, unfortunately, that’s never going to happen. But, the more we stay stuck in anger, and I think this is one of the most damning dynamics for men out there, that our anger becomes addictive and self protective.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: Because if I just stay stuck in anger and irritability and frustration, everyone else is expected to change. Not me. There’s no problem with me. Because, as I said, I’m just externalizing blame onto others. Typical [00:37:00] caveman, the traditional masculine man, also is only as good as his last accomplishment.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: Because our self worth hinges so closely on what we last did, because masculinity is hard won and easily lost, if we fail, if we lose a job, if we get fired, if we get laid off, if we don’t get the deal, many times we can fall into a depression depending on how big this loss is. One of the keys becomes disconnecting your self worth from your wins and losses.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: A typical caveman is also at the mercy of his inner critic. He believes that what the inner critic, that mean, angry, screaming voice in his head is telling him is true. And it’s not true. It’s bullshit. More than half the stuff that you hear in your head is untrue. But because it’s in our head, we think, oh, shit, this must be real.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: I remember I had a PhD from [00:38:00] Cal, and my mind used to still tell me that I was a fucking dumbass.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: Think about that for a minute. That makes no sense.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: And so I had to catch that thought and challenge it. Am I really a dumbass? Some people would say yes, I also got really good grades and I did get a PhD and I did write a book and some people think I’m pretty smart and that’s the level that you have to get to in challenging these, because you can’t stop the thoughts from coming, but you can change how you relate to them.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: So it’s like the waves of the ocean, right? You can’t stop the waves from coming, but you can learn to surf the wave. And so in this case, surfing wave is, oh, there’s that thought again, if I’m a dumb ass, I’ve seen that before. I know it’s not true. I’m just gonna let it go down the thought stream.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: I’m not gonna get hooked by it and look for evidence to support it. Because I can find evidence that I’ve done stupid shit in the past. I know that’s a [00:39:00] huge shocker to you all that are listening, but I have fucked up in the past. So what else? Okay, yeah, typical caveman gets depressed and ashamed by failure.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: And when we get into shame is that belief that we are not worthy of connection. Which is, again, completely untrue. I think shame as emotion is, I don’t know the purpose of it. I’ll every other emotion I can come up with a purpose. I can come up with a good reason that it exists. Shame too much, too far.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: Shame is where you think you are all bad versus guilt, which is I did something bad and I need to make amends. So big difference there. Be aware of shame. Be aware of the damage it does challenge it Perhaps tell yourself that okay, maybe I feel guilty. But shame is inappropriate here. Let’s see, traditional or the typical caveman also fears, any aspect of self, That is equated or could be equated with the feminine.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: [00:40:00] Interestingly to go back to those insults of pussy, bitch and girl understand that, Both men and women are raised in this man box culture and women, young women, girls hear these insults too. And that makes me angry as well because I’ve got two daughters and the message that young girls hear from those insults is I’m less than, I’m not worthy.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: And that fries me because that’s not true either. Typical Caveman tends to be unaware of his own shadow side and runs from it, externalizes it onto others. Typical Caveman is hostile, mistrustful about other people and the world in general. They often see the world as a dangerous place that needs to be, they need to protect their loved ones from.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: And the Typical Caveman is very good at stonewalling, criticism, and contempt. Three of the. Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse from John Gottman, [00:41:00] which pretty much says your relationship is headed for breakup. 

Characteristics of the Evolved Caveman

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: Now the Evolved Caveman, on the other hand, the bright side, the Evolved Caveman balances his head and his heart, so he’s got a balance of IQ and EQ, and he can adapt and pick which one suits the situation the best.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: He has a growth mindset about most things, and most importantly, perhaps, is learning relationship skills to be better in relationship. He is aware of and comfortable with all of his emotions. He knows that those emotions are simply human, that they are messengers meant to give us a message. He desires connection and intimacy through vulnerability.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: He’s not afraid to allow himself to be seen in its, in his entirety. Which, that can be scary as hell sometimes. Instead of, the highest values of money, power, and or sex, he serves [00:42:00] others while getting paid. And, I’ve looked, I’ve talked to a couple experts Michael Steger, and Vick Straker, and, these guys are experts in meaning and purpose.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: And the research shows that one of the best meanings is The best meanings are self transcendent, which means that it’s something serving someone bigger than yourself. So serving humanity could be serving God, could be serving a volunteer organization or serving a cause like fighting cancer. But to the extent that you’re in life for yourself, you’re missing a big chunk of happiness.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: So the evolved caveman also feels anger, but deals with it positively. So he’s ahead of his anger so he can catch it when he’s a little bit irritated, a little bit frustrated and speak to it and say something like, Hey, I noticed that I’m getting a little bit annoyed here because you’re not listening to me.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: Or, you haven’t done as I’ve asked. You haven’t cleaned up your room. So I just [00:43:00] wanted to give you a heads up that I’m starting to get a little bit annoyed about this. They also take responsibility for their own actions, words, and emotions. Ooh, big one. Instead of externalizing, they take responsibility.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: They hold themselves accountable. The evolved caveman knows that his worth goes beyond any single event, any single win or failure, win or loss. They practice self compassion to encourage greater resiliency. So resiliency to me is one of the key traits to cultivate in this lifetime. It’s the ability to bounce back from difficulty.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: With greater energy and greater wisdom, more perspective and self compassion speaking to yourself kindly, as opposed to that inner critic voice is one of the key ways to encourage greater resiliency. Evolved cavemen know that failure is one of the best ways [00:44:00] to learn things quickly. So they’re not spending days beating themselves up when they fall down.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: They quickly look for what is the lesson here that I can pull out of this wreckage. How do I make this loss meaningful and move on quickly? What’s more, Evolved Cavemen are comfortable with all aspects of their psyche. They know it’s just human. And so if it’s annoying or if it’s holding you back, you find ways to deal with that.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: And then you play to your strengths.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: The Evolved Caveman is curious and accepting. Of people and the world around them, they see the world as an adventure, a playground, safe. And this is despite a lot of evidence to the contrary, and I get that. And yet, the story that I, cause I, I’ve been into this, core beliefs and primal world beliefs research lately, which I love.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: And I’ll talk a little bit more about that down the road, [00:45:00] but, I remember I was going to I was going to study abroad in Scotland at University of Edinburgh. I think I was like 19 or 20, and I was a little nervous. Honestly, I was a little scared because I’d never done something like that before.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: And I was going to a country for six months where I didn’t know anybody. And my world belief, my core belief at that time was that the world is mostly a dangerous place. A lot of bad things can happen out there. And I remember I got a postcard, two postcards actually, from two different friends. One was at Edinburgh at the time and one was backpacking through Europe.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: One of the postcards said, Europe is like Disneyland for adults. And I liked how that felt. I was like, I relaxed into this idea that I was going out into the world to another country. And the other postcard said, Europe is my [00:46:00] playground. And I was like, wow, those are much better core beliefs than the ones I have right now.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: And so they helped me relaxed into that, relax into that trip and enjoy it and meet a lot of people and have some life changing experiences. As opposed to if I believe the world’s a dangerous place, then, I’m reluctant to even leave my room, let alone talk to people. And then the last. Peace of the Evolved Cavement, at least that I’ve thought of, is that they are comfortable communicating through difficult topics.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: One of the keys to successful people is that they are comfortable in uncomfortable conversations. And they can sit with those uncomfortable conversations long enough and calmly enough to come to some sort of positive outcome for all parties concerned. Most of the time. As opposed to getting triggered and angry and saying, you screw [00:47:00] you, I’m out of here, so on and so forth.

Final Thoughts and Moving Forward

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: So that’s a little bit of my thoughts about man box culture. Thank you for listening. And then just, where do you go from here? I think the first step is awareness and awareness that masculinity is a mask that we wear that is so close to us that we can’t even tell that we’re wearing it. It’s like the water we swim in if we’re fish.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: And I think that it really is beneficial to us to pull the mask off and look at it with curiosity and just say, where do I subscribe to these beliefs? And are these beliefs serving me? Are they helping me? Are they pro social? Or are they holding me back? Are they causing misery for myself and loved ones?

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: And which ones am I comfortable with? Which ones do I want to change? And which ones do I just want to chuck out the window? And start [00:48:00] there. That’s all I got for today, for this beautiful Sunday morning, where we are seemingly getting more of a handle on COVID, thank God. And emerging from our holes back out into the sunshine.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: Boy, I hope you guys are well, thank you so much for listening I really appreciate it because I do think that this is one of the key topics to make this world a Better a happier place Thanks so much until next time. This is dr. John if you’ve enjoyed this little chat, be sure to leave a review and Share this shit with your friends Maybe they need to hear it, too Cheers, have a good one.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Men’s Therapist: Bye. Bye